South Asian AIr Forces: pakistan Counters Indian air Force

South Asian AIr Forces: pakistan Counters Indian air Force
| RUPEE NEWS | Moin Ansari | September 16, 2008 | معین آنصآرّی | اخبار روپیہ |
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The discussion of the IAF vs. the PAF is as old as Pakistan vs. India. The PAF with the induction of the new F-16s and the JF-17 Thunder is in good shape. A new factor that has entered the theater is the induction of missiles. Whereas previous Indo-Pakistan wars depended on aircraft and army mobilizations, now the scene has changed. Missiles have transformed the landscape. First some background of the PAF.

Pakistan Air Force
.
Combat Aircraft Numbers Serviceability Combat Effectiveness Aggregate Combat Value
.
F-16 44 90% 0.9 35.64
.
JF-17 17 95% 0.93 15.0195
.
F-7 PG 55 85% 0.75 35.0625
.
F-7 MP/P 105 70% 0.7 51.45
.
Mirage Rose 125 70% 0.8 70
.
Mirages – other 20 60% 0.7 8.4
.
A-5III/C ‘Fantan’ 40 50% 0.25 5
.
406 72.78% 0.72 220.572
.
Indian Air Force
.
Combat Aircraft Numbers Serviceability Combat Effectiveness Aggregate Combat Value
.
Su-30 MKI 100 70% 0.99 69.3
.
Mirage 2000H/TH Vajra 51 80% 0.9 36.72
.
Jaguar S(I) Shamsher 139 75% 0.6 62.55
.
Mig-29/UB Baaz 62 50% 0.8 24.8
.
Mig-27 Bahadur 130 50% 0.55 35.75
.
MiG-21 Bison 120 60% 0.75 54
.
MiG-21 Bis 56 50% 0.3 8.4
.
MiG-21 M/MF 80 50% 0.25 10

.
738 61.12% 0.65 301.52
.

.
Capability Gap 36.70% (relative to PAF)
.
Numbers Gap 81.77% (relative to PAF)
.
Serviceability Gap -16.03% (relative to PAF)
.
Combat Effectiveness Gap -10.94% (relative to PAF)

The violation of Pakistani air space by Indian jets recently has given everyone a lot to be excited about. Everyone from every walk of life has had an opinion about it. Still it was when I saw a senior corporate lawyer suddenly transform into a TV expert on international law and its application to military aviation that I decided enough is enough, I need to jump in. After all, in the past I had pursued with some amount of seriousness the dream of joining the ranks of the Pakistan Air Force before I abandoned it for education abroad. Every now and then the PAF Warrior asleep somewhere deep inside yawns and tries to rise up from deep slumber. These are his ramblings.

There is no Pakistani worth his salt who is not proud of our Air Force–perhaps one of the few institutions that have truly lived up to the finest aspirations of the new nation that was founded in 1947. It is a truly merit-based institution that has served the nation with the devotion and integrity that is becoming of a truly professional fighting force. As was true of the whole country in 1947, RPAF too faced scarce supplies and, at partition, a deliberate kick in the pants from the Indians, who had choked the engines of RPAF planes with sugar. It also survived the great ego battle of two Englishmen, the commander in chief of Pakistan’s Army, General Gracey, and the Air Chief, Air Vice Marshal R L Atcherley, with the former holding the view that the RPAF’s only conceivable role would be to act more or less as the aviation wing of the Pakistan Army–i.e, air support to ground operations. Thankfully, the view of Air Vice Marshal Atcherley prevailed and the PAF became arguably the most efficient fighting arm of our state.

In 1965, the PAF was able to retain air superiority over India by retaining the element of surprise and scaring the living daylights out of Indian pilots by strategic use of the dozen F-104 Star Fighters in aid of the F-86 Sabres. In 1971, the war that was lost politically and on the ground, the PAF still came out on top with more than three times the number of kills than its Indian rivals. In his autobiography, renowned American pilot Chuck Yeager, the then attaché to Pakistan, wrote, “PAF is second to none… the air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty four airplanes of their own… they were really good aggressive dogfighters and proficient in gunnery and air combat tactics. I was damned impressed. Those guys just lived and breathed flying.” Despite the numerical disadvantage, the PAF managed to keep up with the IAF over the first four decades since Pakistan’s inception through superior pilot training, as well as aircrafts which had qualitative edge over Indian planes. This prompted another American, Lt Gen Charles Horner, the architect of the air segment of the Gulf War, to declare that “Pakistan has one of the best most combat ready air forces in the world… For the Indian war planners, the Pakistan Air Force is their worst fear. Pakistani pilots are respected throughout the world…because they know how to fly and fight.”Saturday, December 20, 2008 Yasser Latif Hamdani. The News

The reduced size of the Indian AIr Force and its decision to place its aircarfts in forward bases in Tezpur (Northeast India), and Ladakh (Indian Occupied Kashmir) shows some sort of frustration on the part of the decision makers. The Northeast and Ladakh placement of Su IAF jets threatens China and attempts to intimidate the Pakistanis. The Pakistan Airforce (PAF) has taken corrective actions and for the first time since 1947 may achieve parity with the IAF. India attempts to threaten China from Ladakh & Northeast

JF-17 Thunders
Beyond the JF-17 Thunders. The J-10s etc.
The Y-89 AWACS
Hataf, Ghauri, Babar, Abdali missiles


Su-27s and Su-35

Russia elides India in Flanker Su-30 development

Trail of tears and failure: Indian missiles



IAF is down to 30-32 squadrons at present, with many more older MiG variants lined up for retirement

NEW DELHI: At a time when the primacy of airpower in winning wars or at least “shaping” the battlefield for the army to move in is well-established, IAF will not be able to achieve its “sanctioned” strength of 39.5 fighter squadrons even by 2017.

The sheer inability of successive governments to formulate long-term integrated defence plans to progressively build the country’s military capabilities in tune with its geopolitical objectives means the IAF will continue to grapple with a shortage in fighters for the foreseeable future.

The IAF is down to just about 30-32 squadrons (each has 12 to 18 jets) at present, with many more older MiG variants lined up for progressive retirement.

Even with new acquisitions, India will only have 35.5 fighter squadrons by the end of the 11th Five Year Plan (2012), and 37.5 squadrons by end of the 12th one, say IAF projections.

“The depleted air force is a serious risk to national security,” warns the latest report of the parliamentary standing committee on defence.

“There is an imperative need to revise acquisition targets to meet the authorised strength in the shortest possible timeframe,” it adds, calling for “an action plan” by the government in this regard.

This is especially important since IAF itself has held it needs 44 squadrons to meet the “possible contingency” of “a full conflict” with Pakistan, while maintaining “a dissuasive posture” against China.

Moreover, simultaneous conflict with both Pakistan and China, with the capability to hold Pakistan and defend against China, will require 55 squadrons.

Though the IAF is inducting advanced multi-role fighters such as Sukhoi-30MKIs (230 jets have also been contracted from Russia in deals worth $8.5 billion) and force-multipliers like IL-78 mid-air refuellers and ‘Phalcon’ AWACS (airborne warning and control systems), numbers do matter in the ultimate analysis.

Both Pakistan and China, on their part, are rapidly boosting their air forces. Pakistan, for instance, is getting 36 more F-16s from the United States, coupled with its plans to induct as many as 250 JF-17 ‘Thunder’ fighters from China.



The previous IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal S P Tyagi, in fact, had even warned the UPA government that “unless immediate steps are taken to arrest the reduction in IAF’s force levels, the nation will, for the first time in its history, lose the conventional military edge over Pakistan”.

The six-year delay by the government in launching the hunt for 126 new multi-role combat aircraft, under the gigantic Rs 42,000-crore project, will lead to the first lot of these fighters being delivered only by 2012 at the earliest.

By then, IAF would have retired 100 more MiG-21s, which constitute the bulk of its combat fleet, and 40 more MiG-27s.

To counter the sharp fall in numbers, IAF has upgraded 125 MiG-21 ‘Bisons’ and 100 each of the MiG-27MLs and Jaguars with new avionics, weapon systems and life-extension refits.

And now, after signing a Rs 3,840-crore deal with Russia to upgrade its 69 MiG-29s by 2011, IAF is looking for a similar package for its 51 Mirage-2000s with France.

Then, of course, there is the indigenous ‘Tejas’ Light Combat Aircraft programme, which was launched in 1983 to replace the ageing MiGs. But it’s running years behind schedule, with the first squadron likely to be inducted only by 2011-2012 now. rajat.pandit@timesgroup.com

NEW DELHI: Pakistan may be getting more spanking new F-16 fighters from US and JF-17 ‘Thunder’ jets from China but IAF is not scrambling for cover. It remains quite confident of its war-waging capability.

“Every country has its own perception of its defence requirements. Pakistan’s acquisitions do not disturb us too much or give us sleepless nights,” said Western Air Command (WAC) chief Air Marshal P K Barbora, talking exclusively to TOI.

If India was so unconcerned why did it try to put pressure on Russia not to sell China-Pakistan WD-93 engines for the JF/17-Thunder? Other press and IAF reports show alarm at the deterioration of the Indian Air Force. Within a few months, the PAF will have parity with the IAF. This should be a cause for concern, and lack of concern on this matter shows incompetence or arrogance or both.

But what about the fact that IAF is haemorrhaging with a free-fall in the number of its fighters, down to a never-before low of around 30 squadrons (each has 12 to 18 jets) from a “sanctioned” strength of 39.5.

“Yes, the numbers have fallen. There have been procurement delays. But, at the same time, induction of advanced fighters like Sukhoi-30MKIs and force-multipliers have compensated for the downslide in numbers,” said Air Marshal

Barbora.
“We have enough assets to ensure that the skies over this part of the country are free from any external or internal threats. What 10 MiG-21s could do in earlier times, a single Sukhoi can do today,” he added.

The Mig 21s were called the Flying coffins where almost every month Indian pilots would go up in flames.

The government, for one, has approved faster induction of the 230 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia in deals worth around $8.5 billion.

Pakistan is about to receive the build capability for the Chinese J-11s and should be able to produce 50 per year.

For another, after “upgrades” of the MiG-21, MiG-27 and Jaguar fleets, the go-ahead has been given for new avionics and weapon systems for Mirage-2000s and MiG-29s as well. Then, of course, the gigantic Rs 42,000 crore project to acquire 126 multi-role combat aircraft has kicked off now.

The Flying coffins Mig 21 and Mig 27s are pretty useless planes. They blow up on their own. Investing in junk is like Tata buyng cars that have never shown a profit. Pakistan is not upgrading their versions of the Migs. Pakistan is retiring them altogether

As for “force-multipliers”, IAF has already inducted six IL-78 mid-air refuellers, 30 UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) and a wide array of radars, with more in the pipeline.

Pakistan has indigenous capability to produce UAVs. Pakistan’s own Jasoos, Mukhbar and Uqqab are being updated with the latest Chinese and Israeli technology through Turkey.

It’s also getting ready to get the first of three Israeli ‘Phalcon’ AWACS (airborne warning and control systems), contracted for $1.1 billion in 2004, with a case now being made by IAF to procure three more.


Pakistan has twin and redundant AWAC capability using Chinese and Swedish technology. Local science is also producing a new level of AWACS with components purchased in Europe.

The operationally crucial WAC, which covers virtually the entire western front stretching from Ladakh to Bikaner, in particular has seen the induction of several advanced radars. “They have drastically enhanced our situational awareness,” said Air Marshal Barbora.

Pakistan’s AWAC capability is the finest on the planet. Swedish, Chinese plus Turkish/Israeli and Pakistani technology have countered India’s borders and the entire Subcontinent. Details too sensitive to reveal.

The EL/M-2083 Aerostat radar deployed in Punjab and the Master-T long-range tactical 3D surveillance radar in Jammu region, for instance, can look deep inside Pakistan to keep track of all aircraft movements and other activities. WAC, which controls 18 important airbases ranging from Srinagar, Leh, Thosie, Awantipur to Ambala, Amritsar, Halwara and Nal, has also stepped up “operational synergy” with the Army.

Pakistan’s AWAC and radar capability now covers most of Western “India”, specially the Kashmir, Kutch, Sialkot and Lahore sectors which can peek deep into Gujrat, Kutch, Eastern Indian Punjab and Occupid Kashmir. Plus Pakistan human intel is the finest in the world and has eyes on the ground all over India, Eastern India and Southern India.

This is to ensure an integrated air-land war-fighting machinery to take care of any threat in the entire western theatre. “For the swift, short and high-tech wars of the future, IAF and Army must know each other down to the lowest levels,” he said.

Pretty much lot of huff and puff. Ditto on this

WAC, incidentally, covers three Army commands — South-Western Command at Jaipur, Northern Command at Udhampur and Western Command at Chandimandir — in its area of responsibility.

Map of the IAF South West Command



IAF Western Command



“In fact, planning staff from WAC and the three Army commands will sit together in May to further refine concepts of integrated operations,” said Air Marshal Barbora.
rajat.pandit@timesgroup.com

Northern Command, Central Command and Southern command, Jihad command, Lashkars, Jaish and and armed civilian population keeps enemies out of the border.

The Tamil terororism is being beaten back by Pakistani arms…and the exports to the Maoist friends are taking over a swath of 100 distects from Nepal to Andhra Pradesh. Forget about the 7 sisters, the Indian flag cannot fly there.


india-af-central-command
india-af-eastern-command


Indian Western command WAC: Ladakh to Bikanar


India insurrection: North East India Teezpur Airforce base




India China border dispute. Bharat occupies the territory of South Tibet which it calls Arunchal Pradesh. In an era of increased tension, Chinese forces have built a robut network of roads and rails to the border and Bharat has placed SU planes Tezpur to 3200 km or 8500 km with fuel tanks


Pakistan Air bases
Sukhoi 30 Fighter




NEW DELHI: With Pakistan getting new F-16s from US and JF-17 ‘Thunder’ jets from China, IAF now has plans to progressively deploy its most potent Sukhoi-30MKI fighters on the western front.
This comes after IAF identified Tezpur and other bases in the North-East to also base the multi-role Sukhoi-30MKIs as a safeguard on the eastern front against China, which has gone in for a massive upgrade of airbases in Tibet and other areas near the Line of Actual Control.

At present, IAF has just about 60 of the 230 Sukhoi-30MKI fighters contracted from Russia at an overall cost of over $ 8.5-billion. Of the 230 jets, 140 are to be produced under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in India.

The government, incidentally, has directed HAL to complete the ongoing Sukhoi project by 2013-2014 since IAF is grappling with both a severe shortage in the number of its fighter squadrons, down to 32 from the “sanctioned” strength of 39.5, as well as “poor serviceability” of its MiG-21, MiG-27 and Jaguar fleets.

India has so far based its Sukhois — which can be jury-rigged to carry nuclear bombs — only at Pune, Jodhpur and Bareilly, though they have operated from as diverse places as the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and Halwara.
With fresh deliveries of the “air superiority” fighters in the pipeline, the earmarking of important airbases to position future squadrons is taking place in full flow.

The operationally crucial Western Air Command (WAC), which covers virtually the entire western front stretching from Ladakh to Bikaner, in particular, figures high on these plans.

“Our assets have to be distributed all over the country in line with our operational thinking. After the East, the planning is to base Sukhois in our area of responsibility,” WAC chief Air Marshal P K Barbora told TOI.

WAC controls as many as 18 important airbases ranging from Srinagar, Leh, Thosie, Awantipur to Ambala, Amritsar, Halwara and Nal. But several of them need new inductions to maintain their operational readiness. Halwara, for instance, houses the old and accident-prone MiG-23s which are in the process of being phased out.



The basing of Sukhois at new bases will, of course, require new infrastructure.



The Tezpur airbase, for instance, is currently undergoing a huge revamp to house two Sukhoi squadrons.



The move is significant since the Sukhois, which have a cruising speed of 3,200 km and can carry eight tonne of armaments, can strike targets deep inside China after taking off from Tezpur. Their radius of operation, of course, can be cranked up to around 8,000 km with air-to-air refuelling by IL-78 tankers.





Interestingly, Bareilly, which already has two squadrons, has been earmarked as the “hub” for Sukhoi operations in the eastern sector. Some of the fighters have even been fitted with Israeli reconnaissance systems to enable them to “look” 300 km into China without crossing the border.



The Sukhois and the 3,500-km-plus nuclear-capable Agni-III missile, which will be ready for operational deployment by 2010 or so, constitute a crucial part of the “affordable nuclear deterrence” posture against China. rajat.pandit@timesgroup.com






Pakistan Air Force Bases
For the time being it appears that the credibility of Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent depends not on its limited-range missiles, but on the survivability of its strike aircraft. In peacetime the bulk of Pakistan’s combat aircraft are concentraed in seven air bases. However, there are roughly 30 airfields at which Pakistani nuclear-equiped aircraft could be based, vastly complicating Indian counterforce attack planning.

The two units operating the Chinese-built A-5 [No. 16 Sqn and No. 26 Sqn], an aircraft believed to be a leading candidate for the aerial delivery of nuclear weapons, were reportedly stationed at PAF Masroor in early 1998. By late 1999 they had reportedly been re-deployed to PAF Peshawar. The Pakistani Air Force currently operates some 180 Mirage aircraft of various configurations, equiping four operational squadrons [No. 5, No. 7, No. 8, No. 22 (OCU)] and a Combat Command School training squadron. Pakistan obtained 43 used Mirage IIIOs and 7 Mirage IIIODs from Australia in 1990, and purchased another 40 reconditioned Mirage IIIEs from France in 1996. The allocation of these 90 aircraft is not evidently reflected in published order of battle tables, and is only estimated here.

•Major Operational Bases are fully functional bases from which aircraft operate during peacetime.
•Forward Operational Bases are active during peacetime and become fully operational during wartime.
•Satellite bases are used for emergency landing and recovery of aircraft during both peacetime and wartime.
In addition there some two dozen other civilian airfields in Pakistan that could be used for landing and recovery of military aircraft during both peace and war. While some are full-fledged civilian airports, others consist of little more than a single runway and modest support facilities. Most are can be used by jet-fighter aircraft, and all can handle medium-sized tactical transports.


Pakistan Air bases
75 with permanent-surface runways
1 with runways over 3,659 m
30 with runways 2,440-3,659 m
43 with runways 1,220-2,439 mAirbase Locale Lattitude Longitude Facility Command Wing Squadron Aircraft AC #
PAF Bhagtanwala sat
PAF Chaklala Rawalpindi MOB No.35 (Composite Air Transport) Wing
No. 6 Sqn C-130 14
No.12 Sqn B707, Falcon, F-27 6
No.41 Sqn Cessna, Aero, Beach 3
No.455 Sqn Crotale SAM
No.??? Sqn HQ-2B SAM
PAF Chander sat
PAF Chuk Jhumra sat
PAF Faisal Karachi MOB Southern Air Commander HQ
PAF Gwadar sat
PAF Kamra [Minhas] Kamra MOB Northern No.33 (Fighter/Multi-Role) Wing
No.14 Sqn F-7P ~24
No.15 Sqn F-6, FT-6 ~24
PAF Kohat sat
PAF Lahore Lahore FOB
PAF Masroor Karachi MOB Southern No 32 (Fighter Ground Attack) Wing
No. 2 Sqn F-7P ~24
No. 7 Sqn Mirage 5PA, III 24+45
No. 8 Sqn Mirage 5PA, III 24+45
No.22 Sqn Mirage 5PA, IIIDP 14 + 2
No.84 Sqn Alouette III 2
No.453 Sqn Crotale SAM
No.??? Sqn HQ-2B SAM
PAF Mianwali Mianwali MOB No. 37 (Combat Training) Wing
No. 1 Sqn FT-5 25
No.19 Sqn F-7P ~24
No.25 Sqn F-7 & FT-7 ~24
No.86 Sqn Alouette III 2
PAF Mirpur Khas FOB
PAF Multan Multan FOB
PAF Murid FOB
PAF Nawabshah FOB
PAF Ormara sat
PAF Pasni FOB
PAF Peshawar Peshawar MOB Northern Air Command HQ
No.36 (Tactical Attack) Wing
No.16 Sqn A-5 25
No.26 Sqn A-5 24
No.81 Sqn Alouette III 2
PAF Rafiqui Shorkot MOB Central No. 34 (Fighter) Wing
No. 5 Sqn Mirage IIIEP/RP 30
No.18 Sqn F-7P ~24
No.20 Sqn F-7P ~24
No.83 Sqn Alouette III 2
PAF Rahim Yar Khan sat
PAF Rajanpur sat
PAF Risalewala Faisalabad FOB
PAF Risalpur Risalpur MOB
PAF Samungli Quetta 30 14′N 66 55′E MOB Southern No. 31 (Fighter) Wing
No.17 Sqn F-6, F-7P, FT-6 ~24
No.23 Sqn F-6 ~24
No.85 Sqn Alouette III 2
PAF Sargodha Sargodha 32 03′N 72 39′E MOB Central Air Command, HQ
No.38 (Multi-Role) Wing
No. 9 Sqn F-16A 16
No.11 Sqn F-16 A/B 16
No.24 Sqn Falcon 20 F/G 2
No.82 Sqn Alouette III 2
Combat School F-7 ~24
Combat School Mirage 5PA
PAF Shahbaz Jacobabad FOB
PAF Sindhri sat
PAF Sukkur FOB
PAF Talhar FOB
PAF Vihari FOB

Analysis of the PAF vs. IAF – Air Combat Over the Subcontinent
by M. Hussain

Pakistan and India. Two regional powers, frequently at war, armed to the teeth, possessing nuclear weapons and with no end in sight to their mutual animosity. War in the Subcontinent today has very high stakes. But none higher than in their respective air arms. Given the importance of air combat to modern warfare, a crucial factor to analyze the outcome of any conflict between them becomes analyzing the viability of each air force. For wars today always begin in air combat, and the successor there often has Fate decide in its favor.

The Pakistan Air Force has traditionally been known as one of the most professional air forces in the world. But the 1990s was a tough decade for the PAF and much of their prestige was lost. Pakistan chose to invest in nuclear weapons and diverted resources there. Damaging sanctions against Pakistan also hurt the PAF more than any other armed service. Thus, a decade was lost and PAF was left behind.
The Indian Air Force meanwhile, found the 1990s most fruitful. They progressed in leaps and bounds, as the Indian economy expanded, military equipment from the West and Russia opened up, and the IAF started learning and incorporating Western standards of air combat. Yet, there were times when India’s political environment forced itself upon the IAF. Forced to wait for a local replacement for its MiG-21s that has been in development for over 20 years, and forced to abandon purchases because of political interference from within India, the IAF, on the turn of the century, found itself restrained.

Pakistan meanwhile gained momentum. Years of sanctions led to the development of a joint project with China – the JF-17. Unlike the Indian effort, this bore fruit quickly, under the able leadership of the PAF and astute decision making on the part of their military leader Musharraf. And after 9/11, the doors to Western equipment and military aid opened up again. But constant stalling plagued them such that little of concrete and operational value has been inducted. The PAF is nevertheless modernizing, and by 2012 would have caught up with the IAF. With induction in numbers of JF-17s and J-10s by the end of 2009, the PAF will see the gap vis-à-vis the IAF close rapidly.

Yet, in the Winter of 2008/2009, the PAF is yet half-made and the threat of war is thrust upon her. The PAF and IAF are on their highest alert, as the IAF sees its last opportunity to break the PAF, and the PAF holds strong and does not back down. The vital question thus becomes, what will happen if war broke out now? Today? Would the PAF collapse? Such a question cannot be answered without looking carefully at the assets and capabilities of both air forces.

The first salients we notice is that the IAF is far larger, with about 740 combat aircraft versus the PAF’s approximate 400 aircraft. We see that the IAF has over 100 FLANKERs that are modernized and top-rate against the PAF’s handful of early block F-16As. The IAF fields BVR missiles in platforms ranging from the MiG-21 Bisons to the Su-30 MKI against a PAF which officially does not have BVRs.

Yet, everything is not as it seems. What at first glance seems overwhelming odds against the PAF, on closer examination, do not seem as overwhelming. The IAF has far lower serviceability of its aircraft, their pilot training, as evidenced by recent Red Flag exercises with the US is also not yet up to par with the PAF, their maintenance crews are not as diligent, their mainly Russian/Soviet technology is generally less reliable and less effective than advertised, and a large part of their fleet of MiG-21s and MiG-27s are outdated. PAF aircraft are either of Western stock or Chinese and are far more maintenance friendly. Pakistan has also been upgrading their aircraft massively and have incorporated a complex combination of technology from across the globe – from China to Brazil, from South Africa to the US. PAF also very likely has BVRs that are not advertised of South African and Chinese origin. PAF pilot training is on par with the best in the world, and its maintenance crews are trained on the level of Western maintenance crews. Lastly, fighting an air war over Pakistan gives the PAF a home advantage and makes their radar and SAM infrastructure very relevant.

IAF aircraft are mainly of Soviet/Russian origin and are not designed for easy maintenance. The Soviets designed aircraft for mass production and on the view that combat aircraft would have short lives in a full scale conflict. As such, ease of maintenance was the last item on their mind. Even the latest Indian acquisition of Russian aircraft, the Su-30 MKI is known for being highly maintenance intensive and extremely fragile. Modifications to the FLANKERs have made them even more difficult to maintain – and example being that IAF sometimes faces tire shortages because the increased tonnage of the Indian FLANKERs make their tires burn out very rapidly.
Indian maintenance crews are also not up to par – at least compared to Western air forces. The large number of IAF crashes is indicative of this, one of the highest rates amongst air forces of the world. What compounds this problem is the age of large sections of the Indian fleet which has large numbers of MiG-21s and MiG-27s that are, besides the Bisons, highly outdated and are sometimes referred to as “Flying Coffins” by their pilots. It is no wonder that India has a hard time recruiting and retaining pilots .

Pakistan on the other hand has no problems recruiting pilots – the PAF has one of the highest rejection rates amongst air forces in the world. The PAF also has a better pilot to aircaft ratio than the IAF, meaning it could sustain a greater sortie rate over a protracted conflict. PAF aircraft are also “pimped” in that they have been extensively modified. Thus, while on paper PAF is flying ancient Mirages that were bought second hand from the Australians, when one actually examines any such model, one is surprised at how extensively they have been rebuilt – almost from scratch and the hardware is extremely lethal. Other than the secretive BVR AAMs, the PAF has extensively incorporated the strike element into its Mirages, at a level only matched by the IAF’s Mirage-2000s and Su-30 FLANKERs, and even then, some of the equipment has no IAF equivalent.

Let us also remember than any conflict between the two forces would last a maximum of 2 weeks as neither side has either the logistics or the political will to fight a longer war. This means that the smaller air force can sustain itself on a more equal footing for the briefer period of time.
The IAF’s fleet of MiG-21s are very short legged. the PAF’s F-7s have better ranges and also don’t need to fly as far given that they would be defending. Considering how large the IAF’s fleet of MiG-21, this becomes a rather relevant point. It would be hard to imagine IAF’s MiG-21s being able to sustain a presence over Pakistani airspace. Meanwhile, Pakistani cruise missiles and ballistic missiles are significantly more developed, effective and numerous than their Indian counterparts. This means that many of the forward Indian air bases would effectively be discounted, further compounding the problem for the IAF.

All these factors suggest a far more complex and mixed picture of the balance between the two air forces. To quantify military power in a more concrete way and to see how this balance plays out, let us look at a model of the PAF and the IAF.
Let us consider three main elements – number of aircraft, how valuable each aircraft is in battle and aircraft serviceability. We have the number of aircraft as a given. We assign percentages for serviceability, and assign a value between 0 and 1 for how effective each aircraft is. To get a broadly accurate picture, these numbers do not have to be absolutely accurate, but relatively accurate.

We find the aggregate combat value by multiplying each of the factors and the number of aircraft. As you notice, I have not included factors such as home advantage to the PAF, PAF’s higher pilot ratio or PAF’s better training. I have also not included the short-legged nature of the MiG-21s and India’s likely inability to lose (or risk not losing) their forward air bases, effectively rendering them nonoperational. These factors are more intrinsic and are harder to quantify, so I will leave the reader to judge by how much to upgrade the PAF’s score on these parameters, or discount the IAF’s.

I am assuming that Air-to-Ground capabilities will also be an important aspect as destroying enemy aircraft on the ground or important installations is a significant element of the air war. I therefore am holding higher numbers of effectiveness for aircraft on both sides that otherwise would be completely redundant such as the IAF MiG-27. Of course, Air-to-Air is more important generally but strike missions should also be considered relevant. As such the model is only moderately biased towards air-to-air capabilities.

Conclusion
It would appear that the IAF is still the superior force. And while accounting for the exogenous items in this model would further lower the gap than the massive 37% gap shown in the table, depending on how it is discounted, it is still decidedly in India’s favor. However, given the short nature of any conflict between India and Pakistan, the gap does not lend credibility to India attaining air superiority over Pakistan under any scenario as could be concluded if we took the 82% gap in numbers. The PAF would likely sustain significant causalities but would likely be able to deny the IAF any semblance of air superiority over Pakistan, at least for any conflict lasting up to a few weeks. As long as PAF can deny the IAF air superiority, it can be considered to have done its job and would be ready to pick the pieces up from where it left it in the last conflict over Kargil.

SOURCES and METHODS
•PAF Order of Battle @ Pakmilitary.com
••Beyond the Pakistani made JF-17 Thunder Fighter Plane, Chinese made J-10s. When will PAF acquire the J-11s
•Pakistan defense based on missile nuclear deterrent hataf shaheen babar and abdali
•Pakistan’s 500 Al-Khalid tanks have been in production since 2001. Newer generation tanks now being exported via IDEAS 2008
•The declining Indo-Russian relationship. Delhi scrambles for new arms sources but they come with strings
•GANDHI
•Gandhi condones Zulu massacres and defends the British. Aug 4 1906
•The sex life of Mr. Gandhi, and his failures as a politician
•The myth of Mohandas K. Gandhi debunked. He gets an “F” on South Africa, Salt Match, Non-Violence, and independence
•Which war did Mohandas Gandhi support. All of them. There wasn’t a war that the prophet of Non-Violence did not support. He was Sergeant Major in the British Army and won a medal for his war duties
•Gandhi’s racism. The truth behind the mask. Behold Sergeant Major Gandhi who supported the British during the Boer war, Zulu rebellion. Behold the prophet of peace who worked to stratify the South African society.
•Gandhi did not bring the British Empire down.
•Gandhi’s letter to his friend Hitler.
•Sex life of Mohandas Gandhi, his failures and sexual perversion
•” INDIA”
A fit from the Gods to Hindus. Bottled Cow Urine. Story reported by Daily Telegraph of UK
•Kashmir and Junagarh is Pakistani territory
•Kashmir: Does the article of accession exist?
•US resolutions, and Nehru speeches on disputed nature of Kashmir

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)

•World record: 500th Indian “Flying Coffin” Mig 29 crashes. The IAF has …
•Indian Airforce crying wolf? or facing shortage of jets?
•Don’t test our patience.
•A Pakistani Fighter Pilot’s Tale
Filed under: Current Affairs, India CA, Pak CA | Tagged: IAF, India, PAF, Pakistan
« Why the media ignores Nuclear proliferation by India! Tehran to build 100,000 homes in Pakistan »34 Responses
Pokharan fizzile destripes India as a Nuclear power « The Dawn, on September 11th, 2009 at 1:15 am Said:
[...] “We have our own plans of new acquisitions and upgrades of existing fleets to boost our defence preparedness,” said Air Marshal Barbora, whose command is primarily responsible for guarding the skies on the entire western front. Air Forces in South Asia: PAF counters IAF strategy. [...]

Reply
Moin Ansari, on September 10th, 2009 at 2:07 am Said:
Computer coolie:

Thanks for sharing the pic: Raat gayee baat gayee.

When you wrote this you were looking down on your computer. Take a break and go outside your citiies–any city, Lucknow, Agra, Delhi, Mumbai…you will see towering minarets, and beutiful domes of mosques which will remind of you a 1000 years of subservience to the Muslims.

Mahmud of Ghazni destorys Somanth temple
http://www.indianetzone.com/photos_gallery/18/Ruins-somnath_1724.jpg

http://rupeenews.com/2008/11/21/why-mahmud-of-ghazni-attacked-somnath/

Battles are lost and won—Bharat did not gain an inch of territory in 1971–but lost half of Kashmir in 1948.

The more you show that pix–the more you remind the people of Pakistan about the day when the Crescent and Star will fly on the Red Fort of delhi AGAIN!

http://moinansari.wordpress.com/files/2009/09/pakistani-flag-on-delhi-red-fort.jpg

Reply
Kabooter, on September 9th, 2009 at 2:42 pm Said:
When Indian bigots claim that India defeated Pakistan in all wars between the two countries, it really reflects their inner fear that has been engraved in their hearts by the Muslim rule of a thousand years. First, it should really be shameful for the Indians that they have squarely failed to control a country, Pakistan, about an eighth in size of India’s. It should be even more frustrating for them that they failed to achieve their goal even after getting all kinds of help from the broken USSR and then the Westerners. What a pity Indian people! Leave alone finishing off Pakistan – that was their national goal after their mother India was torn in 1947 by the Millat-e-Islamia Pakistan. They are now faced with even more dire dangers due to Pakistan’s effective and fruitful strides in high tech weapon systems (compared to Indian duds). Their leaders are now informing them (see a recent statement by Paranab Mukreeji) that they can not finish Pakistan off. Only Indian fools can boast of all the imaginary successes in the wars with Pakistan after clossal failure on almost all fronts. I really want them be busy in their day-dreaming while their farmers keep finishing their lives and big cities keep swarming with homeless crowds. One day, InshaAllah, we would awake them up to the real life by knocking at the doors of red-fort.

Reply
Bandit, on September 7th, 2009 at 9:52 am Said:
I have been watching all Pakistani sites with great interest and have never siezed to be amused by their dogged persuit of wrong part of history … Really U guys need ta win da Greatest LOL Award in da Universe. You should seriously consider changing your national mascot to an OSTRICH. It suits your mental frame… if u hv 1 !!!

Gr8 job, keep yr LOL Factories runnin mates v luv all da imaginative [...] u guys cook up.

Bandit

Reply
Moin Ansari, on September 7th, 2009 at 10:28 am Said:
Mr. bandit: You don’t have to “watch” or read any other site, other than Bharati sites (Time of India, Hindustan Times, Deccan Hearld and Siffy News) which dole out the messages that you like. We are sure that your Bharati news sources stroke your ego and this helps you embelish your paradigm.

You should stay in your comfort zone.

Never mind that each and every one of our artilces on Rupee News is referenced to credible news sources and many artilces are written by Bharatis in Bharat–of course these are minor details that someone of your intellect would ignore–because you know it all. The invonvenient truth that Dr. Konchal, and Dr. Ruff are based out of Bharat and Isha Khan reports out of Bangladesh and Ram writes to us from Nepal are facts that people like you would surely ignore. Also to be ignored are articles written by Indian nationalists like Bharat Verma and Jaswant Singh–perhaps all these are agents of Pakistan.

Never mind the fact that we are not a “Pakistani site” and 65% of our audience is in the States. Let facts intrude–that within the past few weeks 1.5 million readers have visited our site and this speaks for itself. You have also ignored the fact that we are based out of the US.

We are sure that you do not need to read any critical analysis of Bharat–becuase that would be sacrilage to your mind set. Never mind the fact that we criticize, the US, the UK, France, Germnay, Italy, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan. Why should Bharat be an exception?

Please continue to believe that the Pokhran explosions were not a fizzle or that the Nuclear Submarine had a Nuclear reactor on board, and that the 300 Flying Coffins did not crash. Please continue to believe that you won the 1948 war and “Azad Kashmir and Nothern Areas” were liberated from King Kong and don’t really exist. Obvioulsy any grain of truth would break the monlithic programming that you receive in the temple–reinforced by a triumphalist Bharati media run by Rupert Murdock and his local acolytes–The Hinduist Mahasabah.

We would strongly suggest that you should save your Zestril pill and confine your visit to HinduUnity.org.

Other than that, we thank you for visiting our site and apprecite your barb at our site, even thogh you did not provide any specifics or added any value to the site.

Reply
rich05, on September 8th, 2009 at 1:34 am Said:
dear Moin,

regarding 1.5 million readers i beleive it as i stumbled on this site by mistake a couple of weeks ago, and it keeps me amused, and i have recomended it to quite a few friends of mine,

it is so hilarious, specially when we compare it to other newspaper like Dawn ( Pakistani Newspaper)

ur comments say how united pakistani is, strong economy, great bombs ect

and hoew india is the pits with your calculation over 800 million people are kept under sub human condition,

the cake was sikhs are being exterminated, in punjab, where they are majaority and in power this make intresting reading got to appreciate how the mind makes uo things,

http://www.dawn.com/

go to the above site t,today edition

pakistan is great
eg headllines

TOP STORIES
Militants attack schoolchildren in Orakzai, four dead
Militants attacked schoolchildren belonging to a rival tribe, killing four and injuring three tirbesmen, sources say.
(these were shia children killed by sunni terrorist)

Three found guilty of plotting transatlantic bombing
The men ‘intended to bring down seven aircraft, indiscriminately killing hundreds,’ a London court ruling said.

(peace loving ?)

Justice Iftikhar decries lobbying for judges posts

The ‘pressure exerted upon constitutional consultees’ over the past one month was disgraceful, said the chief justice.

(hmmmm)

Five die in Waziristan US drone attack
Two missiles struck a militant hideout located next to a madressah in the Machikhel area of Mir Ali.

(american attaking citozen of a neuclear power ?
what was that)

PML-N dissolves all committees, gears up for polls
The PML-N Chief Nawaz Sharif declared that turncoats will not be accepted in the party.

(this is politica it ok)

MORE TOP STORIES

Gilani’s plea for swift passage of US bills

(Begging for dollars ? for malakand and swat, i mean a robust economy seeking alms oops)

Pakistan at ‘extreme food security risk’

(oops aftter worring about arab food security and selling 1 million acres of farm land to ksa ?)

Pakistan, India agree to resume bilateral trade

(trade with india !!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

and this is just the first page i cut and pasted taken today

rgds

Richie Rodrigues

Govt not to raise power tariff anytime soon: PM
Ahmadinejad bars talks on ‘undeniable’ nuclear rights

Reply
Moin Ansari, on September 10th, 2009 at 2:19 am Said:
AND..your point is…

…did you not read about Bharati nukes were duds, Bharati nuclear missiles don’t work, Bharati Nuclear Submarine didn’t have a nculear engine—all from Times of India and the Hindu

If Iftikhatr Chaudhy takes action against a judge..whats the issue…better than the PM taking bribes from Bofers.

Bharat has 1.3 Tirllion Dolalrs in debt–some say twice that number–its is one of the biggest debter nations on the planet..and you have the gall to talk about Pakistan taking loans!!—Sweden and Iceland also took loans..as did Bharat.

There is war going in in Afghanistan..and the West needs to pay for the destruction..nothing strange about this…its a business deal

Reply
zuhayer171288, on April 14th, 2009 at 12:58 pm Said:
assalam o alaikum…moin bahi …i have been reading your posts …they are very informative ….. good work …. i have a question …

you wrote in this post that pakistan has 17 JF-17s …. can u point me to the news or source of this ….i have read that paksitan had planed 17 JF-17s by 2008 …but i cant find the conformation of these news …can u point me in the right direction …

thanks in advance
Jazakallah and Allah Hafiz

Reply
cooldevil, on January 8th, 2009 at 5:20 am Said:
dun know why u indians always want to show us that u r superior man……chalo PAKISTAN ko choro but dun u remeber what china did to u people lolx chinese army was just running down the hill towards u people in uncountable no’s n ur what called indian army surrenderd in front of them u dun know history i thnk n just showing patriotism.ur what called LCA are not succeded even today after 20 years of wasteless work ur own people are saying jf-17 is far far better and just burry down the LCA’s into dust lolx dun u peoplke believe on ur own sources lolx dun make jokes here about ur LCA’s n bla bla

Reply
Anil. B. yadao, on December 26th, 2008 at 3:59 pm Said:
Mr. moin Ansari, i read conversation between you and Dev kant. Everybody know the condition of Hindustan and Pakistan. you do know that muslim, the cruel person, tried to convet whole india into islam. But they couldn’t. Hindus fought with muslims for 1000 years and save country. why you are boastin with the help of china or other muslim country? please understand, what will happende if whole indian stand against you. Neither pakistan or you will be on the earth.

Reply
Moin Ansari, on December 26th, 2008 at 7:21 pm Said:
Mr. Yadao:

Namashkar, Namastay, Hello and Salaam:

Thank you for visiting our site and giving us your valuable comments. We always respect an honest opinion from an honest person using a real name. interrupting the conversation between me and a thorough gentleman, Mr. Kant. We disagree on many points, but always in a civil manner. What I like about Mr. Kant is is great sense of humor. So we enjoy his company on this site. Just goes to show that we can agree to disagree.

Since you have taken his name, we will also treat you with the same respect and expect the same from you.

To your flame bait, we have responded many times.

http://rupeenews.com/2008/02/03/why-did-buddhism-disappear-from-the-south-asian-subcontinent-summary-of-brahmin-atrocities-that-destroyed-buddhism-in-the-subcontinent/

Real history informs us that even though Brahmnaism (defined as some agressive leaders) destroyed Buddhism and Jainism in the place of its birth it was unable to destroy Islam and Christianity. The 450 million enslaved Dalits are converting, and as you know Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

If the Muslim rulers really wanted to convert all the Hindus, a “Sapnish Inquisition” type of event would have eliminated every temple and Hindu in India. Contrary to your temple stories, the Mughals considered themsleves as local residents and did rule with a firm and fair hand.

As far as the threats against Pakistan and me personally is concerned we will ignore it at this time. If a threat is repaeated we will follow up with the force of law and also ban you from the stie. As any computer coolie will tell you, you are fully traceable in Delhi and we all know who everyone is on the internet via vsnl.net.in.

Was Salaam

Editor

Reply
Mr. moin Ansari, i read conversation between you and Dev kant. Everybody know the condition of Hindustan and Pakistan. you do know that muslim, the cruel person, tried to convet whole india into islam. But they couldn't. Hindus fought with muslims for 100, on December 26th, 2008 at 3:58 pm Said:
iam waiting your reaply

Reply
Dev Kant Bose, on December 18th, 2008 at 4:03 am Said:
Moin ansari saheb,

It is not Dr Concha it is Dr. Kancha Illiah. Maybe it was a slip like condemn and condone.

Anyway I am glad that you are so fond of Dalits. Maybe you will care to explain what happened to Mr. Jogindernath Mandal, the Dalit who was Pakistan’s first Law Minister. He was forced to resign and kicked out of Pakistan.

Dalits made up the largest chunk of East Pakistan’s 25% Hindu population in 1951. Most of them were driven away by Pakistani/Bangla Muslims. They amke up only 10% of Banglas’ population today. You can read the blogspot of Mr. Palash Biswas a Bengali Dalit anti-Brahmin activist of the fate which awaited the Dalits who had collaborated with Muslims in the Partition movement.

Spare your crocodile’s tears for India’s Dalits and Conchas.

Dev Kant

Reply
Moin Ansari, on December 18th, 2008 at 8:24 am Said:
Dev sahib:

I know Dr. Kancha–I have tlaked to him, and read all his books which I treasure in my library. Our team has invited him to honor him.

While I cannot explain Mr. Mandal (never heard of him), can you explain the massacre of more than 1 million Dalits and the enslavement of 450 million Dalits and schedule classes in India. Many articles on this subject on this site and also on Dalit Freedom Network. Cyber Gandhi has written reams about this also. There is no comparision in history–the treatment of Dalits in India is the most atrocious crime in the history of mankind. The US Congress has repudiated India many times on this. Read “Why I am not a Hindu” by Dr. Kancha and his latest one also.

The percentage game does not work well for those trying to malign Muslims and Pakistan. An equal number of people were traded between Pakistan and India in 1947 (independence NOT “partition”). The plight of the Muslims of Gurdaspur, and Ferozepur is as sad as the reaction to the ethnic cleansign of Muslims in the border areas of Pakistan and Bangladesh.

“Mr. Biswas” is trying to drive a wedge between the “converted” and the “to be converted”. Mr. Bhwandas and many other Supreme Court judges were Hindu and ran the Pakistani Supreme Court without fear or hindrance. If you want to read some reall history kindly read Dr. Ambedakar.

Our staff is on holiday and vacation so we are a bit slow these days.

Best Regards and Was Salaam

Reply
omal aloysius, on December 17th, 2008 at 4:46 pm Said:
my dear brother in pakistan moin saab, i respect your sense of patriotism.it is nice of you that ,you have dedicated whole lot for your nation.iam an indian christian.but my ancestors were hindus.only a small portion of muslims and christians in india are the successors of foreign elements.majority of muslims and christians in indo pak subcontinent.are the converts from hindus.most of them may have done so to free them selves from iron clutches of casteism.historically ,ethnically,geographically , culturally and linguistically muslims in pakistan and india are similar.then why are we waisting our energies in mutual bickerings.in general elections in india 75% percent of indians votes for secular parties.majority of indians view pakistanis as their brethren. i dont want to make any comments against your opinions expressed in these articles.two wrongs cannot make a right.why dont we try together to form an indo pak bangla confederation. india and kashmir is yours and pakistan is mine. i hope that our generation can end this fratricidal war

Reply
Moin Ansari, on December 17th, 2008 at 8:41 pm Said:
My Dearest Christian brother Omal:

Salaam e Masih to you.

..of all the peole of the book, in the Christians you will find good people specially those of the collar who are not arrogant (Holy Quran)..loose translation…I will post exact quote later

Thank you for your kind sentiments. We appreciate your message of love sent to us by Hazrat Eesa and Prophet Muhammad. We all want peace. As soon as they stop encroaching upon the territory, liberate the occupied territories theere will be peace.

Most Pakistanis wonder about the “secularism” that burns Christian churches in Orissa and massacres thousands of Muslims in Gujarat. Indian Secularism is “Hinduism light”. Under the vaneer is the BJP, Modi, Adhvani, the RSS. They play God cop and Bad Cop…the goal is the same Akhand Bharat and the stuff listed on HinduUnity.org etc.

Wasn’t is the “secular” Nehru who showed Mountabatten a forged article of accession on Kashmir (which India claims is now lost–if it ever existed)? Wasn’t is teh secualr Indira Gandhi who interfered in a civil war? Wasn’t it The Congress that proclaimed that NWFP belonged to India and Punjab was in the way (see declassified documents with Kissinger and Bhutto–posted on this site also).

The Hinduist party BJP lined up forces on the Paksitani border, the secular Congress actually corssed it on many occasions including last week.

Read Dr. Concha–our Indian hero. He works for Hydrabad University and is a Dalit. Read his book “Why I am not a Hindu”. We support all Dalits and salute him.

We have nothing against any religion. Visit AJMA.org to see our interfaith work

Reply
irfan khan, on December 17th, 2008 at 4:31 pm Said:
Dear dev kant bose etc You are pakistan’s best hope. As pseudo intellectuals like you keep on looking through their 5th grade schooling paradigms, Pakistan moves on. You are your own worst enemy and whats better than letting you stay in your bigoted vision. As they say ” the mind of a bigot is like a pupil of an eye , the more light you throw on it , the more it shrinks.” so dream ON.

Reply
Dev Kant Bose, on December 10th, 2008 at 4:29 am Said:
Handy bhaijan.

Moin ansari saheb is one of the best writers I have come across. I would heartily recommend him for the Pullitzer Prize in the Fiction Writing category.

Dev Kant

Reply
HANDY, on December 9th, 2008 at 12:17 pm Said:
Mr Moin Ansari

On one hand you always proclaim to air the views of others, as you belong to some neutral news agencies sort of organisation in US, how does it always happen that you only do this against INDIA and INDIANS. My advise to you is (if you have the will to improve yourself) please have the courage of being neutral, if you regard your self as a scribe.
Best of luck

Reply
Moin Ansari, on November 25th, 2008 at 1:40 am Said:
If India does not covet Pakistani territory then it should return Junagarh, Manvadar, Sir Creek, Siachin, Kargil and Kashmir and halt the water stoppage.

Mehsud and Compnay are Indian sponsored terrorists just like the LTTE. Pakistan nishan e manzil hai. Not sure what you mean by Khilafat. The Muslims rejected the JUH and JI notions and voted for he Muslim Legue. Religious parties routinely get about 5% of the vote. The 56,63 and 73 constitutions define what Pakistan is to be not Dev Kant (due apologies to your sarcasm)…but you can continue to believe what they have programmed you to believe.

The Amir is Jamat e Islami has not been PM of Pakistan.It wasn’t Pakistan that voted religious parties to power, it was India when it elected the BJP and will vote for Modi in the next “election”.

PS: “Bhooka Nanga Hindustaan, dil seh piyara Pakistan” is one of the Kashmiri slogans in Srinagar, reported by Andhurty Roy which can be found in “Incredible India’s free press (also reported on Rupee News)…the rest of the slogan was “jeeway Jeeway Pakistan” (please see Roy’s articles..I didn’t make this up!)

Reply
Dev Kant Bose, on November 25th, 2008 at 1:32 am Said:
Kabutar,

Please get it out of your mind that India covets Pakistani territory, if it does it will also get hell lot of Muslim people as citizens and no sensible nation wants that.

Moin ansari saheb,

We will certainly appreciate if you can send some financial assistance and food to feed bhooka nanga Hindustan but military alliance we can do without. What is your gripe against Mehsud & Co, they are merely trying to establish Khilafat-e-Rashida in Pakistan, is that not waht Pakistan was established for?

Dev Kant

Reply
wildpigeon, on November 24th, 2008 at 1:52 pm Said:
I dont know if Pakistan as said by Indians has never won any wars from India,has got no money,has no education,has no resources then,why the hell whole world is scared of Pakistan.Pakistan is the only country which is fanatically discussed in world press.Pakistan is the most famous country on the face of planet.Indians cant simply digest it.Russian defeat is the best example if any counry tries to mess with Pakistan.Pakistan if comes to survival will definately sink India into Indian ocean if even a single inch of its soil is lost.Hindustan has already lost enough of its land in the form of Pak and Bdesh.They cant afford another war.

Reply
Moin Ansari, on November 24th, 2008 at 1:36 pm Said:
Mr. Bose:

If anything, you are more predictable than the BJP and the RSS. Your sarcasm does not hide your true beliefs. Surely they and you firmly believe Indian army won the battle in 1947. Azad Kashmir and Asai Chin simply appeared on the map with the blessings of Bhagwan.

Doesn’t the India Army occupy Kahsmir with 800,000 soliders…oh! yes…they are on a picnic in the “atoot tang” and the ISI is keeping them engaged! Fire the 800,000 and hire Swiss guards, maybe they can seal the Cease Fire Line.

Didn’t the Indian Army kill 100,000 Kashmiris of its “atoot tang”?

Didn’t the Indian Army declare emergency and cut off ‘the you know hat’ of millions of Indians”…and

And according to your thinking in 1965 the Indian Army captures Lahore, Sargodha and Silakot. In the ‘71 civil war according to your thinking Islamabad was in Indian hands.Wasn’t Bangladesh supposed to end up like SIkkim? What happened on August 14th 1975 when secularism was buried deep in the Bay of Bengal?

As far as the Pakistan army is concerned, it is fighting the Indian spies and agents on Pakistani territory. Thanks for the offer to help but then your would be killing your own spies, agents and murderers.

On a side note, the Pakistan Army can assist your fight in Khalistan, Tamilland, Mizuram, Asaam, Kashmir, Gurkhaland and the seven sisters in the Northeast. Prime Minister Manmohan SIngh said yesterday that India is losing its battle to the Maosist–who contorl more than 40% of the Indian Union’s land mass.

You guys are killing 1 million girls per year chaning the demographics and the make female ration and 75% of Indian live below the poverty line–India the hungriest nation in South Asia.

Maybe Pakistan can help India feed its people, it has Arab, and IMF connections!

Oh yes! The ideas2008 displays the JF-17 Thunder which is flying right now. Any news when the decade long project for the LCA will produce something that flies?..and what will replace the Agni,Trishul, Nag missiles which were scrapped by the Indian Army.

Reply
Dev Kant Bose, on November 24th, 2008 at 1:45 am Said:
Gohar Ilahi saheb,

Is there not anyone normal and rational in that country of a billion people??

Yes, sir. Me.

I know for certain that Pakistan Army has won more wars than Indian Army. They beat Kalat, they beat Gwadar, they beat Okara. They have also conquered Pakistan three times, in 1958, 1977 and 1999. Inshallah, they will conquer Pakistan more often.

Also, as a major-non-nato ally, Pakistan is entitled ….

As a major non NATO ally, Pakistan is entitled to bomb its own citizens- in Lal Masjid, Waziristan, Bajaur – to bits.

What im really excited about is the next generation of aircraft that will come out?

So am I and most other Indians. It will help Pakistan bomb Bajaur and Waziristan even better.

Dev Kant

Reply
gohar ilahi, on November 23rd, 2008 at 7:23 pm Said:
These indians both historically and even now, are delusional. I mean, just look at the facts, they have tried to attack Pakistan on three occasions, and outnumbered us both in arms, equipment and with their billion plus population yet we are still standing, getting stronger and sticking it to them.. yet rather than except the facts, indians claim to have won those wars?? lol! thats delusional. Is there not anyone normal and rational in that country of a billion people??

Anyhow, cant worry about delusional extremist indians, there in their own weird world that will eventually cave in on them.

The Pakistani air force needs to further the process of indigenization and self-reliance. I think the induction of the F-17 is the right step, and look forward to seeing the first squadrons of the J-10. What im really excited about is the next generation of aircraft that will come out? Also, as a major-non-nato ally, Pakistan is entitled and privy to other technological advances that we should try to learn and incorporated into our local defense industries.

Reply
dev, on November 19th, 2008 at 5:30 am Said:
my grandfather wasa hindu n my father was a christian my mom is a muslim lady i was brought up in such a manner tat my people taught me to respect every religion n love my country . if u want to dream u have the right bt remember we change geography nt history hope u remember bangladesh

Reply
Raj, on October 29th, 2008 at 5:44 am Said:
Hello pakis[tanis]

Remember

In 1948 war india occupied 80%of kasmier but u pakies ocupaied only 20%

In 1965 war india occupied nearly 19000 KM land but u pakies occupied only 6000 KM

In 1975 war pakies lost bangadesh

In kargil we kicked u r ass what elae u want just check the links in google

In all pak muslieams having Hondu bled because 600 years back ther was no muslim in india
The came from Afghanistan and somany people converted as musliem

Jai Hind

Reply
Pakistan China relationship a two way street « Pak Alert Weblog, on October 19th, 2008 at 4:53 am Said:
[...] Indian Airforce moves SU-30s near Chinese and Pakistani bases [...]

Reply
last brave man, on July 15th, 2008 at 9:17 am Said:
These indians are so naive lol…. Let me remind Indians couple of things… Muslims ruled india for 1000 years Pakistan kicked indian butts very hard everytime. Why don’t you google it. Even in Kargil 1999 Pakistan made india cry and when i say cry i mean realy cry!………Pakistan was alone but india was backed by Israel USA and rassia ….. WoW…. If you go on and see you will only see indian defeat….” Pakistan never reveals its secrets of operations. Pakistan let india think whatever she desire so next time Pakistan takes india even with more surprise so keep dreaming and say You won all the wars…. lmao

Reply
moinansari, on May 28th, 2008 at 9:48 am Said:
Ram Chandra its you again!

Wake up and smell the coffee. Still reading those “Indian story books” after 1000 years of Muslim rule over all Hindus. Just look up at the skyline of all major cities, and you will see the symbols of Hindu defeat and Hindu subjugation in the msoquess, forts, mahals, and buildings.

1) In 1948 Pakistan liberated Azad Kashmir and Norhtern Areas

2) In 1965, India was unable to take any major Pakistan city.

3) ‘71 was a civil war. Only 40,000 soldiers. The rest were woemen and children and civilians. It wasa battle not a war. The war goes on!

4) Using POWs for building roads is a war crime.

5) Jewels from the Somnath temple were used to pave the roads. Every Hindu has Muslim blood in her..you know what I mean!

6)Somnath, Panipat Delhi is littered with Hindu bones. Look around Delhi, Agra, Hydrabad, and you will see the symbols of 1000 years of occupation

7) Caught you guys napping in the mountains a few months ago. Wait for the next surprise.

8) India can never cross the border ever again!

Reply
FIGHTER, on May 28th, 2008 at 4:55 am Said:
PAKISTANIS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DEFETED, 1N 1947 1965 AND 1971 AS THEY WERE AGGRESSOR ALWAYS AND IT WAS A WORLD RECORD AS 93,000 PAK SOLDIERS SURRENDERED IF THEY WERE REAL MUSLIMS THEY WD HAVE FIGHTED. BUT THEY COWARDLY SURRENDERD AND WERE USED AS PORTERS BY INDIAN ARMY. THE DELHI MEERUT ROAD WAS BULID BY THESE SOLDIERS ONLY

Reply
Zarak Khan, on April 26th, 2008 at 2:08 pm Said:
hahaha so much afraid you are of the truth that you have deleted my post with links about Pakistan losses/defeat at the hands of India in 1965…

Reply
Moin Ansari, on April 26th, 2008 at 12:37 pm Said:
If Pakistan lost the 1948 war where did Azad Kashmir come from?

If Pakistan lost the 1965 war, please show us the territory that India owns out of that war.

Indians were asleep and Pakistanis took over Kargill. Then withdrew, but the point was made.

Perhaps you can read something else than the 8th grade textbooks Rama Chand aka Mr. “Khan”
==================
The Tamil terororism is being beaten back by Pakistani arms…and the exports to the Maoist friends are taking over a swath of 100 distects from Nepal to Andhra Pradesh. Forget about the 7 sisters, the Indian flag cannot fly there.

Beyond the Pakistani made JF-17 Thunder Fighter Plane, Chinese made J-10s. When will PAF acquire the J-11s

Pakistan defense based on missile nuclear deterrent hataf shaheen babar and abdali

Pakistan’s 500 Al-Khalid tanks have been in production since 2001. Newer generation tanks now being exported via IDEAS 2008

The declining Indo-Russian relationship. Delhi scrambles for new arms sources but they come with strings

GANDHI

Gandhi condones Zulu massacres and defends the British. Aug 4 1906

The sex life of Mr. Gandhi, and his failures as a politician

The myth of Mohandas K. Gandhi debunked. He gets an “F” on South Africa, Salt Match, Non-Violence, and independence

Which war did Mohandas Gandhi support. All of them. There wasn’t a war that the prophet of Non-Violence did not support. He was Sergeant Major in the British Army and won a medal for his war duties

Gandhi’s racism. The truth behind the mask. Behold Sergeant Major Gandhi who supported the British during the Boer war, Zulu rebellion. Behold the prophet of peace who worked to stratify the South African society.

Gandhi did not bring the British Empire down.

Gandhi’s letter to his friend Hitler.

Sex life of Mohandas Gandhi, his failures and sexual perversion

NASTY INDIA
A fit from the Gods to Hindus. Bottled Cow Urine. Story reported by Daily Telegraph of UK

Kashmir and Junagarh is Pakistani territory

Kashmir: Does the article of accession exist?

US resolutions, and Nehru speeches on disputed nature of Kashmir

Reply
Zarak Khan, on April 26th, 2008 at 12:32 pm Said:
Keep on living with those pipedreams …Squarely defeated and humuliated in all the four wars they fought with India, some Pakis[tanis] are constructing a new fantassy world for themselves